People are starving in Gaza, hostages are still missing, and the U.S. remains Israel's closest ally. What's a Jewish lawmaker to do?

Right after a flurry of activity around Israel and Gaza on the Hill, I connected with Congressman Greg Landsman, one of only 32 Jews in Congress (9 in the Senate, 23 in the House). Landsman has been a voice defending Israel and demanding humanitarian aid to Gaza, and like myself, does not believe the two are mutually exclusive. In June, he declined an invitation to his staff from Qatar, saying they could discuss how to end the war in Gaza instead, and since recording, he joined a bipartisan Congressional delegation visit to Israel. We talked on August 1, as Congress went on recess, and much has happened since then that won't be covered in the episode, obviously. But we did cover a lot, including growing up as a Nice Jewish Boy (he has sisters) in Ohio, raising cool kids, and some of the work he is most proud of. More about Greg, his beloved Ohio, and other stuff:

Hebrew Union College was established in 1875 to train rabbis, and is generally considered the birthplace of American Reform Judaism. 

Sally Priesand was the first Reform woman rabbi, ordained at HUC in 1972, but the first woman rabbi is Regina Jonas, ordained in Berlin in 1935, and murdered at Auschwitz with more than a million others.  

The team now known as the Cincinnati Reds fielded the first known professional team in 1869.

McDonald’s first Filet o’ Fish was sold in 1962 in Cincinnati, developed for Catholic patrons observing Lent. 

In 2016, Landsman led the Cincinnati Preschool Promise ballot initiative guaranteeing two years of quality preschool to 3- and 4-year olds in the city, the first voter-approved initiative of its kind. 

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion: an unequivocally false, debunked, and antisemitic forgery printed in Russia in 1903 that has been used to bolster and give language to countless conspiracy theories and antisemitic acti

Transcript

THIS IS AN AI-GENERATED TRANSCRIPT. TECHNOLOGY IS AMAZING BUT IT'S NOT PERFECT, PLEASE FORGIVE ERRORS!

Greg  00:01
Yeah, defining it is one thing, like, just fix it. You know what I mean? I think that's where we all are, like, just exactly. And, yes, Hamas is, you know, an issue. And, and, you know, get these hostages home, what they're going through is just awful. But, you know, accept the fact that it's a problem, yeah, fix it. I mean, it's, it's the moral thing to do. It's the Jewish thing to do. It's the strategic thing to do. It should be an avalanche of food and water and medicine like that's that is a huge that's the best way to be us as Jews. It's also just the best way to defeat Hamas,

Hannah Gaber  00:42
today's guest is a Midwestern dad, an MA holder in theological studies from Harvard, tattooed, sometimes stand up comedian. Oh, and he's also the Democratic Congressman representing Ohio's first district. That's where Cincinnati is for the non Ohioans out there like myself, I talked with Representative Greg Landsman on August 1, just as Congress was going on its August recess, and right after a flurry of congressional activity around supplying weapons to Israel or not, it feels like a million years since we spoke, and so Much has happened since then, to include a bipartisan delegation of congressional representatives going to Israel with the American Israel Education Foundation, which is the charitable organization affiliated with AIPAC. Greg was among those representatives. More on that, and a million other things in the show notes, as usual, and we do talk about a lot more than just Israel, even though it feels like we have a lot more to talk about, like, for example, he's also raised by anthropologists, so missed opportunity there. That'll be for next day.

Greg  01:53
When I was an intern on the hill, I was 19 years old, I lived in Chevy Chase on Military Road in like, some family's basement, like they rented out their basement for like, 300 bucks.

Hannah Gaber  02:07
I listen, when I first moved to DC in my 30s, I was in the basement at my auntie's house. So, you know, you do what you got? Yeah,

Greg  02:15
I don't think I ever saw the family like the basement had a separate entrance in the back of the of the house, you know what I mean? And then they, they went to the front door. They had great, you

Hannah Gaber  02:29
just heard them pounding around on your roof.

Greg  02:31
Yeah, it was weird. I had a roommate too. There were two of us living in the basement.

Hannah Gaber  02:36
Now that's some classic DC I know, coming up type stuff.

Greg  02:39
Yeah. I also lived when I finished college, I started working my first job out of college was working for Pelosi and super intense job, and I lived on ton law in, what is that sort of north of Georgetown, or, you know, like, just up from Georgetown, yeah, like, Oh yeah, and I think I have four or five roommates, and I that was fun.

Hannah Gaber  03:06
So that's okay, so nice segue. So you started way, way, way, way, way back in, like your years ago, from this ancient time we started, that's right So, but you know, just meaning, like you, you literally did the thing from, like, the basement and the intern all the way to, like, working for Pelosi and like, here you are. You're sitting here.

Greg  03:33
I know it is cool that she, I mean, you know more than anyone else, she's sort of a reminder of that life, or like, sort of the my early days, right? And seeing, you know, I bump into her on the floor most days, and wild, you know, she's still Madam Speaker, and it's, it's pretty crazy, Hannah. It feels like I've been around forever. But, you know, this is just, this is year three. It feels like a long time, but

Hannah Gaber  04:01
a long decade this year has been, isn't it? I mean, timing is what it is. The world exists. Life is happening. My Instagram feed has been horrific in a lot of ways, unpleasant

Greg  04:16
last few days, very unpleasant

Hannah Gaber  04:17
in so many ways. And I've seen some really surprising things coming out of Congress, things that I was like, oh, that's some decency. So how have your last few days been?

Greg  04:30
You know, it's fine. I mean, I'm home, and I really do love this job, and I want to get good at it, because the amount of impact you can have is pretty significant, you know, both legislatively and in terms of just delivering for people back home. So when we're home, it's a lot of going to visit businesses and schools. We have these community conversations or town halls. We did one with seniors a couple of days ago, and. And it's so helpful to understand a couple of things. One is like, what's top of mind and and how people are talking about what they need from you. It's also just a nice way of, like, remembering what matters most. Because, you know, sometimes when you're in DC, you get in you get pulled into things that do matter and then some things that don't. And certainly, you know, if, if you're, if you spend too much time on social media, you you get pulled into a lot of things that are not top of mind for people. And you know, it does, it does help in terms of getting yourself regrounded and the lives of the people you represent

Hannah Gaber  05:41
staying in touch with reality. Dare we say, I think it's so

Greg  05:44
important. Like, I just, I love it so much. And so I hate these extended DC moments where, like, we get, we get held there for an extra two, you know, extra couple days because they can't get their boats together or something like that. It just obviously, I miss my fam, my my family, and my home. I just like, you know, I like being at home. This is my home, and then, but I just, I love being in southwest Ohio, like, This is my place. I love every inch of my district, and so, you know, like, anywhere we go, I'm like, Oh, these are my people.

Hannah Gaber  06:17
That's awesome, well, and I mean, these are your people, right? I mean, you're from, from, from Ohio. I mean, this is going to sound, you know, not to sound, okay, no, I'm here. I'm the stand in for the stupid questions. When I think Jews, I don't think Ohio, Ohio, which is actually silly, because also HCC in Cincinnati, long and storied, really, really like respected, massive institution,

Greg  06:46
Cincinnati's birthplace of reform, Judaism, as you just mentioned, with Hebrew Union College and we, we, we ordained the first female Rabbi here in Cincinnati. We're a city of firsts. You know, first fire department. Think we're this first baseball team, professional baseball team, first fish. Fish Sandwich was sold here.

Hannah Gaber  07:09
How could you prove Okay, well, McDonald's, okay, got it. I was like, you can't claim the first fish sandwich ever.

Greg  07:14
Sorry. Filet fish. And then, you know, I led a ballot measure. We're the first city in the country to provide two years of quality preschool. So, you know, part of that tradition. But, yeah, there's, there's a pretty big Jewish community here in southwest Ohio and and it's a very close knit Jewish community. And I suspect this is true for Jewish communities all over the country. I've been traveling a lot and spending time with Jewish communities all over there is, there is a sort of coming back together or strengthening, you know, because oftentimes, or before October 7, I think there at least here we were. We were arguing within the Jewish community over some some important stuff, but also some not so important stuff. And I just don't feel that kind of tension anymore. It's really just a relief when we're all together. I think everyone just is like, Ah, this, you know, it feels safe and and, you know, it's your people.

Hannah Gaber  08:09
Yeah, it's interesting, because my So, my brother is a citizen of Israel. His wife is Israeli, his baby is Israeli, his baby whose name is Geffen. So we just, she's the little grape, and we're all just besotted, of course. And so, you know, they were here and they were working in the US at on college campuses. She was working for Hillel, and he is a Jewish educator, and they were here for October 7, and it was just within about, you know, six months, just pour us not she was like, I'm used to being a Jew in Israel where, like, you're just a person who is Jewish. People are Jewish. It's around you. It just exists here. It's, it's like, it, it is. It almost feels, you know, she was, like, being a Jew in the United States. Now, it's like, I'm making a statement of some kind by just being a Jew. Exactly, yeah. I just want to like, I just want to exist. Yeah.

Hannah Gaber  09:08
I just think that holding American Jews responsible, for example, for the actions of a political nation state that are horrific we run a date, we're playing a dangerous game, I think, is where I'm going with that.

Greg  09:22
I've had this argument with the Prime Minister, you know, as a member of Congress, you know, I have the ability to get on these trips and, you know, and I worked in Israel for years, so it is very Israeli to be direct. And so I'm direct, and have been with the Prime Minister. And I, I've said, like, you know, despite what you want to call it, or, you know, I wouldn't argue not that you are, but I just think this is really important, like, you know, defining it is, it's one thing. Like, just fix it, you know what? I mean, I think that's where we all are, like, just exactly. And yes, Hamas is, you know. An issue and and core to this, this war, obviously, that, you know that we all want to see end, and, you know, get these hostages home and fed, because, you know what they're going through is just awful. But, you know, accept the fact that it's a problem. Yeah, fix it. I mean, it's, it's, it's the moral thing to do. It's the Jewish thing to do. It's the strategic thing to do. It should be an avalanche of food and water and medicine like that's, that is a huge that's the best way to be us as Jews. It's also just the best way to defeat Hamas Amen, the right thing to do

Hannah Gaber  10:41
anyway. No, I completely agree with you. And this is, I think, part of where it becomes, you almost get to where you're like, I don't, you know, I don't think that being Jewish is a political statement. It's just a part of my life. And I think we, you know, and I think it's also who we are. It's just who we are. And I completely agree with you that, like, I, I think if I, if Israelis are denying that people are starving in Gaza, it's maybe because you'd have to deny it in order not to demand that somebody freaking fix it, knock it off. You have, like, you can't we. I just don't think that humans can be aware of this level of suffering and not want it to end.

Greg  11:16
It's just so often, honestly, like, there, you know, the first these hostage families. There was a, you know, you know, it's just, they want their family members back, and they're like, why are you helping, you know? And it's like, because it is, even though one I've seen hostage families or former hostages say, like, when I was taken into Gaza, it was 100% of people cheering to suggest, like, it's 100% of people in Gaza responsible, which is like, just not true. I mean that that is true for her, but like, and what a horrible, horrible experience, like, unimaginable experience. And I remember, I, you know, I remember the images of her being taken in, and there will be with me forever. But it's 2.1 million people. And you know, the children in particular are not to blame, not to blame. And honestly, I think the best way to defeat Hamas is to separate Hamas from everyone else, and you can do that with the humanitarian work. That's that's one of the, you know, ways to do it.

Hannah Gaber  12:27
You take away the thing that they're providing and getting credibility from saying, Well, we're taking care of you, because nobody else will make that not when

Greg  12:36
I, you know, and this is why I also said to the prime minister, was like, you know, the I, you know, he said the other but you know, they're trying to, you know, set it up so that Hamas doesn't steal the food. And I said, I think that's fine. And I sounds very complicated. You could, you know, the Hamas stealing the food is only problematic because they're selling it back to Gazans in order to fund the war, but if you flood exactly Gaza with food, then there's no real market for Valiant, you know. And there it is. It is frustrating that the UN and UNRWA have not done what it's supposed to do. They've been so antagonistic with Israel they want to be seen as unbiased, and so they won't take help from from from the IDF when, you know, and so they they have left, you know, truckloads of food, so everyone needs to, sort of, you know, knock it off. Yeah, when Unruh, you know, I've been going at it with the Qataris, because it's like, why are you not doing more to you have senior Hamas officials in your backyard, like, everyone has to do more, including the Israelis. And the Israelis are doing more now, but everyone has to do more to end the humanitarian crisis and the war, get everyone home and rebuild.

Hannah Gaber  13:57
Yeah, and that's one of the things I really wanted to ask you about, because, I mean, obviously we're tiny minority, period, very, very few Jewish people in Congress.

Greg  14:09
It's, I think there's probably 2025

Hannah Gaber  14:11
2323 Yeah, and 1/19 it's 23 in the house and nine in the Senate. Okay, there are nine of that. I know. Who are they?

Greg  14:21
Just kidding. Yeah, so 30 out of 535.

Hannah Gaber  14:25
Not a lot. It's not a lot, but I'm curious. It's one of those things, of course, even bigger picture, even before, obviously, before Gaza, before all of this, like just the polarization, of course, in this country is so catastrophic and is so dangerous,

Greg  14:42
that's a good word. It is catastrophic. Yeah, it is terrible.

Hannah Gaber  14:46
Where do you think? And this is kind of the question that I think maybe you know, we're Jewish people, so we have a weird, Lent, not weird, different lens on life. And I'm curious, like, how or. Or does that lens inform when you look at something and see opportunities for bipartisanship? Is there a way that you sort of look at this perhaps, is there a Jewish lens that you can look through that maybe shows you places that can be touch points? Where can we build these bridges?

Greg  15:19
I think you know you, you one just have to commit yourself to constantly looking for those opportunities and and and taking advantage of them when they they sort of arise. I have been very vocal about anti semitism and Israel and national security in general, returning to sort of bipartisan places like they've been all of it's been so politicized and an anti semitism, you know, like it's, you know, you see it on the far left, you see it on the far right. It's, it's, it's, it's extremism, right? And sometimes it's on the left, sometimes it's on the right. And, you know, I honestly like to be, you know, to be as credible as possible. Like, I think both sides probably use it to for their political purpose. Like, it's like, oh, well, look, look what happened in Charlotte and so, like, you know, you know, Trump saying there were good people on both sides did make the case that, you know, he was embracing some of it. But you know, the Republican Party writ large, that's not as you know they're not. You know, that's not who they are. And I think the same is true for like, you know, the far left and the the anti semitism that we're seeing there, where, you know, it's different than just saying, I'm pro, I'm pro Palestinian. I'm sure you're pro Palestinian, like, you know, like, that's we want. We want nothing more than, like, peace, peace,

Hannah Gaber  16:58
human lives to be protected and treated as if they're precious,

Greg  17:03
yeah, but there are some people who are just like, vehemently anti Israel and who don't like Jews. You know, like in my feed, are people who are just like, you know, to say things like bile Jew. I mean, that's a bile Jew. I don't understand why Bile is there's something sort of informative about why they hate us in that, because it's language that's sort of stood the test of time, but that's on the left, but that's not the part. That's not who we are as a party in any event, I just think it's important to to keep pushing for these things to to be de politicized, to get the partisanship out of national security issues, issue Israel, anti semitism. And, yeah, I think, as a, you know, as a Jew, you know, for me, it is, you know, we're, we're big, Golden Rule people. So I think that's one of those, you know, that's one of those opportunities, like, we should never, ever treat anyone differently than the way we all want to be treated. And another reason why the aid is so important. And 

Greg  18:14
I don't know, I think the the other thing that is not uniquely Jewish, but like, I'm very i i love about the Jewish community is that there is a lot of wrestling that we do with issues and, and it's sort of, it's a huge part of the tradition, the debate. I mean, that's how Jacob got his name, right? He wrestles with God, and then God says, You have a new name. You will be named Israel, and, and, and it's sort of one of the it's, it's a huge part of why I'm Jewish, or what's at the core of my own faith is this, this ability, this this appreciation for wrestling with these things. And I do think that's something that helps, like, Okay, we don't have an answer here, so instead of turning on each other, why don't we work through it together? Yeah, and I do think that's something that that we can bring to the table. Let's wrestle this to the ground together, absolutely,

Hannah Gaber  19:16
and enter from a place of we're all solutions oriented, and we gotta hash it out. And like hashing it out, isn't? It doesn't it's not animosity. It doesn't mean I hate you as a person. It means we've got to solve this, and it's going to be hard.

Hannah Gaber  19:40
So how does being Jewish show up in your day to day life like? What does being Jewish look like for you?

Greg  19:46
For me, it is core to my identity. I mean, it's and it always has been, you know, I can't explain why, other than it's just always been there. I mean, it's you. In part, how I was raised, but it's also just the connections, the connection I felt, and have always felt, to the community, more than anything else. I mean, my relationship with God is very personal, and so some of that I get in shul, sitting in temple, but some of it is really just, most of, it's just my day to day thing, and it's and Judaism sort of allows for that, you know, like I'm allowed to sort of have my faith tradition be or my relationship and understanding of God be deeply personal. It does not have to follow, you know, somebody else's ideology, or, you know, theology. It can be mine. It is mine. And I, you know, that's one of the reasons why I love Judaism, which is, like that is there's a space for just, just about everybody, you know, on that theological spectrum. But I think it shows up. I try to have it be the fact that I, I at the heart is this, this commitment to trying to heal the world, like you take one piece the world, or whatever portion of the world that you can and you you try to redeem it, you try to make it better. That's why I chose public service. And I just think about that every day, which is like, Okay, did I make this little part of the world better?

Hannah Gaber  21:36
Yeah, it makes it make a lot of sense. Why? From a perspective that is, quote, unquote, Jewish. Why public service? Why? Why would you run for Congress? Why would you do all these things? Because I have to, it doesn't have to be this.

Greg  21:51
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, and everyone is different. There was a rabbi who wrote a book about Judaism, and he talked about the idea of, you know, the Messiah, and how Jews understand the Messiah, and this, this idea of redeeming the world. And he talked about each of us as being sort of many messiahs, and that we all have this space that we can make better, and that can be, you know, with your spouse or your children, your parents, your friends, it can be with your neighborhood. And you know, for me, it was the first time, as I got elected the United States Congress, it was the first time I was like, Okay, now I'm serving my country. So how do I like and it's, it's harder because it's such a, such a much bigger place. But, you know, I, in my first term, I got the, you know, one of this bill had been sitting there for 25 years. We forced to vote on it the Social Security Fairness Act. And for over, you know, over 3 million public retirees, teachers, firefighters, police officers, letter carriers who paid into Social Security but weren't getting it because they got a pension, they were being denied the benefits they earned. And now all that money's out the door, and it's cool to see these folks who are not wealthy people they were they spent, you know, three or four decades as teachers or firefighters or whatever it is, but they're now getting 345, $600 extra in a month that they had paid into. And it's just making, yeah, that's making their lives better,

Hannah Gaber  23:33
yeah, man, I could use an extra 345, $100 yeah, anyway, and I get it, it brings, that really brings it into, like, the real world. So to say where it's like, what are some, some tactical things we can do to, like, do Tikkun Olam. And, oh, a conversation I had with a rabbi very early in the show was, you know, I've always because I was going to ask you to, like, how do you get rid of the guilt? What about the panic when you haven't done enough? Like, how do you how do you get through it? And, you know, she sort of talked about how, yeah, you fix the you fix the broken vase that's in front of you. That's what you do. And you can't go looking for all the broken vases. If you find one, you fix it. But you you know. But seriously, how do you deal with it? Because I know so much of it's not in your control. You work in an incredibly difficult position for building consensus to get anything done. So I mean, like, yeah, how do you how do you deal with the Panic of, like, God, am I doing enough?

Greg  24:29
You know, this weird, I see you. Yeah, I think everyone has some inner dialog, right? I'd like to think so maybe they don't. I do. I'm constantly thinking to myself, and there's this thing that happens every night. I hate, I hate going to bed. Oh no, I know, because it's so quiet. I mean, it's too quiet, and I feel like I'm giving up on the day, like I just quit, which is so dumb. And like, obviously, like, but I do say the same. Same thing in my head as I'm going to bed almost every night, which is like, All right, well, you did the best you could. I swear to God, this happens every night. Do the best you could. What's the second thing that always comes into my head, which is, oh, you just you try again tomorrow? Yeah. Yeah. I almost every night, it's, I did the best you could. It's not intentional. It's like, it's just what pops into my head. But I I sit in the guilt in a way that I don't think is, like, unhealthy, but I also don't, I also know it's not super healthy. I just think it's like, it's, I think it's okay to sit in the guilt and be like, I mean, with Gaza, like I, I don't, I don't want to stop watching like, I think I should be, you know, like tormented by it. Yeah, we should see how horrible it is. And the same is true for, like, the flooding in Texas, you know, a couple weeks ago, like, my daughter's at camp right now. Yeah, she was at camp when the flooding happened, and she gets home Sunday, and I just want her home. And so there was a part of me that was, like, every time the story would come up about one of those kids, I just, like, swiped on but it was my wife who, like, forced it back in my face. Like, no, no. You have to read it like just someone is living this. Someone is living this. You have to sit in it. You know, at least we can do Yeah, and because then you start to appreciate that, like, Okay, I now demand, like everyone, everyone to be held accountable. I don't want you fired, but I want you to fix this. Don't ever do this again to anyone, ever.

Hannah Gaber  26:55
Yeah, you hit on something interesting in that too, that I think is really important and could do a lot for us in this country and in our society, in the moment, which is also leaving room for redemption of the like, Yep, that was bad, real bad. I also believe in your ability to do better. And you know, to your point, right? Like, start today, and if you don't quite get there today, yeah, we'll try again tomorrow. You know, I think that I wish that there was more room for that in these dialogs in our society in general.

Greg  27:26
I do too. I mean, it fits in with my Judaism, and I think, I think it'll resonate. But, like, continuous improvement is a science, and it's my favorite, like, sort of approach to fixing things, which is like, okay, look, don't throw anything out yet. Don't start throwing punches. Don't start like attack just, just try to take a sense. Try to continuous improvement is okay. Get as much data as you can, look at the problem, really understand the problem. Ask as many Whys as you can, the five whys. Get to the root of the cause of the issue, and then and start trying to fix it, and don't, don't, don't stop. Like you're never going to fix it. Fix it. You have to. Sounds like a son, you're you're never going to fix it entirely. You should be constantly getting better. And that's like, that's, I think, an approach that government should take, which is, it's not working for most people, and the people who need it the most need it to be better. And instead of burning it to the ground, which they're trying to do or protect it like, it's, you know, perfect, which some, you know, try to do like, no, let's make it better. Like, constantly make it better.

Hannah Gaber  28:45
Yeah, and it's gonna take all of us, and we can do it. We can do it, yeah.

Hannah Gaber  28:57
Like you said, you're home. You love being home. And like I said, you know? Oh, yeah, I don't think Jews when I think Ohio, even though it's ridiculous, because h u c, birthplace of American reform, Judaism, etc. What's it like being a Jewish Midwestern dad because you're a congressman, sure find great, but what you're really doing is raising people into this world. How's that

Greg  29:18
the best? I mean, so my kids are almost 14 and almost 16, so my son's just, it's just like he's just such a cool kid, and he he plays a lot of soccer, a lot of basketball, a lot of golf, and he's got soccer tryouts tonight, so it's just been like, watching him work his tail off getting ready for tonight is really cool, and she's also a nice kid, really kind person. My daughter, my daughter is the same, like, just so interesting. And you know, both of them follow politics, and they both have really unique perspectives, and they share it, and it helps me. Me interesting. My daughter's more in her head like me. He's, you know, he's the athlete. She's very athletic. But we go to a lot of concerts, and that's like, one of our favorite things to do, because we get to, like, do this thing together, but we're also able just to sit and think and listen to music. Do you know what

Hannah Gaber  30:19
I mean? That's awesome,

Greg  30:19
yeah. But, yeah, it's, it's been fun. I mean, I mean, it's crazy. I can't believe I'm getting so old that I had

Hannah Gaber  30:29
kids, like, she's kids who are, like, real people and, like, do things. Yeah, she

Greg  30:33
gets back Sunday, and then I think next week she starts her driver, driving the driving the the her lessons. It's hard to what starts like, but the process for her, getting her, her temps, yeah, her driver's license, starts in like, that's

Hannah Gaber  30:55
it. She's like a whole person, like a real entire semi adult human.

Greg  31:01
It's unbelievable. It's cool.

Hannah Gaber  31:04
That's awesome. And also, like, because you're born and raised in Cincinnati,

Greg  31:08
right? Yeah, I grew up in Oxford, Butler County, but yeah,

Hannah Gaber  31:12
in the in the in the neighborhood, yeah. What a gift to give your children. Because, you know, I was like, born in Massachusetts, which I love, mass hole forever. Carries it with me. It's like in the DNA, fine. Love it. But, you know, we have this, and I'm happy for our legacy, too. You know, we traveled a lot. We grew up, you know, my mom was in Cyprus, doing archeology my whole childhood. My stepdad is a biblical archeologist. You may have heard of him with your mister comparative religions degree, divinities, yeah, yeah. Divinities, yep. He's so Bill Deaver is my stepdad, and, you know, so we traveled a ton and, you know, all that stuff. But I never had,

Greg  31:47
like, Indiana Jones,

Hannah Gaber  31:48
if only moms, you know. But I don't have that, you know, being really from somewhere, like, I'm not, like, born and raised anywhere, I don't have that connection, and I'm curious, like, so what did it look like for you growing up? How was it for you, like, as a child? Is there a big Jewish community, like, and how was it for your

Greg  32:13
kids? So I maybe this is one of the reasons why I grabbed onto it when I got to college, and then, like, have never let go when, when I was two, my parents got divorced. They were in Cincinnati. My mom ended up, you know, dating and then marrying a college professor at Miami. So, you know, she moved to Oxford, and I we, I moved to Oxford with my sister, and ultimately, multiple sisters. I have four sisters. Oh, my in total. Yeah, I'm in the middle. There's two above me, two below me. Oh,

Hannah Gaber  32:46
good. They taught you all the things. I'm sure you're a very, very nice guy. This is what happens.

Greg  32:52
You have no other option when you have that many sisters. Anyway, they so there was not, I mean, there's a Hillel in Oxford because of the university, but, like, I just did not grow up anywhere near Jews. Yeah, you know, like with my dad, like I spent the weekends with my dad and and then he got remarried very quickly, and we he, he he had us going to synagogue until we I was maybe eight or 10, and then he just, he, he stopped. He did just didn't think it was worth it. And one things that we did was just sort of push through with our kids to make sure that they got to the point where they could if they wanted to do their bar and bat and they both did, and they both had an incredible experience in my kid, yeah, but I just like, I was the only Jewish kid in Oxford. I felt like, I'm sure there were other Jewish kids, but like, I don't, maybe not. I mean, maybe not. So like, I had this experience of being by myself and I would get made fun of. It wasn't like, you know, hardcore anti semitism, you know. But it was like, you know, I was different as a as the Jewish kid and my friends would make fun of me to the point where I was like, you gotta stop, like, and then, and then there was this sort of gaslighting that I get sometimes. Now it's like, triggering, which is, like, we're not being anti semitic. I'm like, Okay, well, I'm telling you, it's, it's, it's like, inappropriate, right? And they're like, God, you're so sensitive.

Hannah Gaber  34:29
Oh, my God, I know that feeling so well. And also the feeling of like, you may not be intentionally being anti semitic, but I'm the Jewish person, and I let me tell you how I'm

Greg  34:38
just telling you, yeah, like, just let it like, let it go. Like, it's not that funny of a joke. It's also funny nickname or, yeah, like, and so sometimes I feel triggered, you know, because people will be like, Oh, that's not anti semitism. It's like, okay, all right. I was during the reddit AMA, somebody was said, do. Know, you you always bow down to your Zionist overlords. And I want to be like, hey, it's a little, it's like, borderline. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm not gonna argue with this person.

Hannah Gaber  35:10
Yeah, well, that's probably not that's the problem. Those are the people you can't really argue with, but they're also the ones who, like, need to know that that's not

Greg  35:17
good. But it's also like, you know, it's borderline, you know, Zionist overlords just,

Hannah Gaber  35:23
I know, I wouldn't call that borderline. We're straight up Elders of Zion, slightly, slightly changed,

Greg  35:30
yeah. But then they would say, you know, that's not anti, you know. And you're like, Okay, it's, don't gaslight, I'm telling you. I'm like, yeah, there are other ways to say it, if you want, if you want to say, like, whatever, yeah. I mean, other people sit with,

Hannah Gaber  35:44
yeah, yeah. I mean, my sister had a really interesting, important she's a social worker, and so has a lot of good things frameworks to use. And one of the things that she said that has been very useful in my life, too, is impact over intent. I understand that you may not be intention, intending to come off as anti semitic, but the impact on me is,

Greg  36:03
feels very anti semitic. Yeah, feels pretty anti semitic. So thank you your question. So, you know, I think that did help me, because, like, once I got to college, I immediately connected with the Jewish community there I, you know, I don't know if it's accidental. I joined the Jewish fraternity. Oh, I don't know how that happened. Okay, anyway, and then that was sort of, that's been my it's been my home base ever since.

Hannah Gaber  36:31
That's awesome. And what made you decide to do a comparative study, comparative religions?

Greg  36:36
So I'm a Thea masters, Master's degree in theological studies. And in you study, you know, comparative religion, and so you get into the history of Islam and Judaism and Christianity, some degree of Buddhism and Hinduism, and, you know, other eastern you know, religions, but it's really the big three, big bug.

Hannah Gaber  37:01
Well, yeah, numeric,

Greg  37:02
yeah, numerically. And, and it's, it's an, I found it one very interesting. I always, I love it to this day. People always joke like, you know, at parties, like, you never want to talk about religion or politics, and it's like, I got, I spent a lot of money,

Hannah Gaber  37:19
so you just don't talk at parties or more,

Greg  37:23
like I try to find, you know, historical, archeological, you know, sort of that stuff is so fascinating, think, and you can talk to just about anyone. But, yeah, I mean, it has helped me better understand how religion can make, you know, things really great, and how it can make things really, really bad, and what to watch out for, and, and, and, you know, I think it's made me appreciate people, yeah, that aren't Jewish, because, like, I get it, like, as a Jew, Like, we have certain experiences. And then you look at other groups, particularly sort of marginalized groups, and you're like, I understand, and I that, yeah, so, like, I wouldn't want to do onto them. What? Yeah, I wouldn't want someone to do to me. And

Hannah Gaber  38:18
nobody has the market cornered on the truth right like nobody has the market cornered on the right thing. And I love that you came from a place where you were like, maybe the only Jew in town, we don't know, probably felt like it one way or the other, and that even then, when you did get to a place where you could find and connect with the Jewish community, you were like, but I would still like to also make sure that as I delve into this that I keep myself informed about the other people and what they're doing.

Greg  38:45
Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, it's really important. And I, you know, as I I went to divinity school right after September 11, and part of it was I just, I wanted to spend a couple years further exploring my faith. I wanted to get a different degree than other people who would be going into public service, just because I, you know, we have a lot of lawyers. I'm one of only a couple people who have master's degrees in theology. And I also thought the next generation of leaders needed to better understand religion and and do a better job with it so

Hannah Gaber  39:28
well. And I hope that your ability to do that and speak those languages, you know, maybe that's something that can help us all find that common ground. That's the goal. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. I wish that we had more time. It feels like we're just getting warmed up

Greg  39:40
anytime. We'll do it again.

Hannah Gaber  39:45
Thanks for listening to Jewish. If you like what you hear, please give us a follow. And don't forget to tell a friend who might be a little jew curious. It really is the best way to help people find us. Also make sure you check out the show notes for a glossary of terms you might have. Heard in this week's episode, Jewish is a say. More production.


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