October 7, two years later: the family of one freed hostage says "enough."

Two years ago, Liz Hirsh Naftali was working in real estate, organizing for the Democratic party, and enjoying life as a mom and auntie. Then, she awoke in Tel Aviv one day, and her world had been ripped apart: her family killed, her 3-year-old niece kidnapped in the Hamas attack on Israel on October 7, 2023. Abigail was eventually returned, but Liz has kept working to free the others. Now, two years into the conflict, 48 hostages remain, only 20 or so believed to be alive, and Gaza is in full-blown humanitarian crisis. Liz has crossed the aisle and the world telling her family's story to help bring an end to the conflict. Her book, Saving Abigail, and her podcast The Capitol Coffee Connection, are both part of her mission to bring people together.

MORE
Simchat Torah: the yearly celebration of finishing reading the Torah, and starting over again.

United Hatzalah is a community-based, volunteer emergency medical service in Israel.

Kfar Aza: one of the communities hit hardest in the October 7 attacks, along with Be'eri and Nir Oz. Recently, they've begun rebuilding.

The "ceasefire before October 7" claim: while there was some cessation of hostilities between powers at the time, violence against Palestinians in the West Bank in particular, and attacks on Israelis by Palestinian Islamic Jihad and rocket attacks from Gaza had occurred as early as January. What is clear, however, is the October 7 attacks were meticulously planned and aimed at provoking a larger conflict, weakening Israel's diplomatic ties and destabilizing talks with Saudi Arabia. For a deeper understanding, see here, and here, and one of the best sources for background on Hamas, and most things Middle East, in my opinion, the Conflicted podcast. 

A survey cited in NPR reporting in July said 80% of Israelis support ending the war in Gaza, but a more recent poll cites 66%. Protests against the war in Israel are widespread, and families and friends of

Transcript

THIS IS AN AI-GENERATED TRANSCRIPT! WE LOVE OUR ROBOT FRIENDS BUT THEY'RE NOT PERFECT, PLEASE FORGIVE ANY ERRORS.

Liz Naftali  00:01

It's a humanitarian crisis, yeah, and we do need to bring home everybody, and we need to stop the fighting and take care of I always like to say this, and I mean this, the children on both sides, so they're not sitting here in 30 or 40 years having the same conversation you and I are having that we learn from it and that we are better people and we work together.

Hannah Gaber  00:20

Liz Hirsh Naftali went to bed on October 6, 2023 glowing from a beautiful Simchat Torah celebration, and woke up October 7 with her life destroyed. Members of her family had been killed and one had been taken into Gaza, her three year old great niece, Abigail. Abigail was among more than 250 people taken that day, and her parents were among the 1200 killed in the October 7 attacks, which we mark the dark two year anniversary of today. Abigail was eventually released, but Liz's work continues. 48 hostages remain in Gaza even now, two years later, but only 20 are thought to still be alive, as with any conversation having to do with the Middle East, you will hear some strong emotions and opinions and unfortunately, some gory details in this conversation. So be prepared for that, and don't forget to check the show notes for more and as always, some links to some really great sources of information for a little more nuance and detail. As we speak, October 7, 2025 around noon, talks are underway to end the war and release the rest of the hostages. So fingers crossed that by the time you hear this, it will all be but a bitter memory, and we'll be well on our way to a better world. In keeping with Liz's hope and vision for all of us and the work that she's trying to do, may the source of peace and peace to all who mourn, and comfort to all who are bereaved.

Liz Naftali  01:50

I was somebody that was, you know, in the world of business, and I'm a real estate in the real estate business, and I always was helping other people. I grew up in a family that was very much involved in the Jewish community, both in America and in Israel, and just trying to be do good things, support people, make sure that people were, you know, taken care of. And then I became an activist in the democratic world, and my goal was to really help to elect women and people who didn't have a voice. And so I did that, and I was very active, and it was important to me. It wasn't so much about issues, it was more about how do we find people that look like the people in our country to represent them? And then about three years ago, I started realizing we weren't talking to each other, and so I started this podcast called capital coffee connection podcast, which is like a podcast on all the stations that have a YouTube channel. And the goal was to talk to people on the Democratic side and the Republican side, just to get to know people about heart and humanity. We didn't talk about politics or policy, and I loved it, because it was just really getting to know people. And if you didn't know what they voted on or their the letter by their name, you could just see their lovely people, just a person. Yeah, exactly. And that I started in the spring of 2023 and then all of a sudden, I woke up on October 7 in Israel. And truthfully, you know, I never wanted to. I was always on the side of like, how do I help people? But I literally woke up on October 7 and started a journey of having to ask people for help. So that was something very new to me. But what I understood was I'm American, and very fortunate to be American, I think, and it gave me certain abilities to support my family that was tragically murdered and my little great niece who was kidnapped, but also just gave me an opportunity to be a voice for a lot of people who were hostage families and hostages. And here we are now on October 7, two years later, and we still have 48 hostages. And people say, Well, why are you still doing it? You got Abigail back? And I say, because we're humans, and this is about humanity, and it's our, you know, moral imperative to take care of other people. And so here we are today, and we're about to hit the second year, and that sort of gets you to where I am today. And truthfully, my goal, and I think most people's goal, is to see, how can we help other people and do good in the world.

Hannah Gaber  04:29

I really do feel like, first of all, thank you for all of that, and thank you for sharing. I really do feel like so many people are so tired of of the divisiveness and the suffering and the and the misery and like it just keeps coming and and to your point, I also fully agree that I feel so every day I wake up and I feel so lucky to be an American. I feel so lucky to have. Of a warm, safe home that isn't bombed out, that I have clean water that comes out of the tap when I turn it on, that I have enough food, and that my family is alive and with me. For the most part, it's I think there's also a danger of fatigue, right? People like sadness fatigue, and we cannot turn our eyes away, and that you are saying like, yeah, I've got my Abigail back, but there's 48 other Abigail's who are not back and may never be back, not at least in the wholeness in which they went missing, yes, not to mention the 10s of 1000s of Abigail's in Gaza who are under rubble, or, god knows where,

Liz Naftali  05:43

and yeah, and also look at the kids of Israel, Abigail's one, but there are 1000s, 10s of 1000s, of children in Israel who are traumatized. Have lost family related to somebody lost that family, or they spend so many times running to and from a bomb shelter, and they're with adults that are traumatized, and so I think like there's no there's no competition of suffering. There's too much on both sides.

Hannah Gaber  06:08

Thank you. And I just cannot that. I could not have said it better. I mean, I feel that way a lot, where it's kind of like it's not a competition. Two things can be true, yes. And it sounds like what you're doing is really trying to work on making both all of those things a little less true, like with whatever a little bit we can do. I mean, you said a sentence that I just wish nobody ever had to say, which was my family was murdered and my great niece went was kidnapped. I mean, it's a nightmare. You were physically in Israel on October 7, were you in the kibbutz with your family?

Liz Naftali  06:43

No, I was in Tel Aviv, and my story is that I, you know, I have kids that live there, and I lived in Israel for many years, but I was going to visit my daughter, and I got on a flight on October 5 from New York, and I was going to go see my daughter, and I ran into a Senator who I had known through my work, Senator Cory Booker from New Jersey. And Senator Booker said, What are you doing tonight? That meant, like on the sixth when we got to Israel, and it was Simpa Torah. And I said, Well, I'm just going to my hotel. I'm going to have see my daughter on Saturday morning Shabbat. And he said, Come with us, my team and I were going to dance with the Torah in Jerusalem, and then we're going to go to a big dinner with an American Israeli family, three generations. And I said, Great. And so we landed, we all go to Jerusalem, and it's a beautiful night. I mean, it's Simcha Torah, and people are dressed. And, you know, Jerusalem is a very beautiful city, but it was just full of just incredibly beautiful energy to celebrate. Then I Yeah, and then I we went to the shoal. And I had never been to Shoal in Israel, where men and women were separated. And so we were dancing with Torah, I'm on one side, and Senator Booker Cory is on the other side, and I can see him smiling, and I'm smiling. It's just like this beautiful evening. And after that, we went to dinner with this family, and had a beautiful evening. I went back to Tel Aviv, and he stayed on with his team in Jerusalem. And then the next morning, from my hotel, at 630 the sirens started the loudspeaker at the hotel, and everyone was running to the stairwell because they said there was a missile attack.

Hannah Gaber  08:21

What a horrible contrast.

Liz Naftali  08:25

Yeah, and I'll say this, you know, I went to bed on October 6 thinking, you know, the world has problems, but we're okay. And I felt like, when I woke up on October 7, my world was shattered. And I can tell you what happened personally, but what I also woke up was I just realized wasn't a Democrat, there wasn't a religion. I was just a person, a human. I woke up in a situation where I just had to start to figure out how to help my family.

Hannah Gaber  08:59

I admire so much your bias towards action. It's almost like things are much more clear in a crisis, because it's like someone has to do something I can see, the first next step I'm happy to take care of that everybody follow me and like, right? In a way, it's like, Thank goodness for that clarity. But what an awful what an awful thing to wake up to. I mean, I woke up on October 7, and I remember my thought was, I cannot believe Hannah did this to these millions and millions of people, because I knew Israel was not going to rest or stop until every single one of those people was back home. Every I was like, these descendants of these Holocaust survivors are not going to let you keep their family? It's not going to happen. And of course, this Hannah knows this. This is by design. Of course, this is all this is a choice, and I knew it was going to get so much worse. And it's it's horrific to think how many people are still missing two years later.

Liz Naftali  09:56

Yeah, there's 48 people who, as we speak today, are still being held host. Age 28 we know are deceased. They need to come home to be buried properly and with dignity of their families. And by the way, they're not all Jewish. There's Jews, the Christians, Muslims, and they're not all Israelis. They're from other nations, and they are by, you know, multinational. And they are and then there's 20 men, mostly young men, some young fathers with children who haven't seen their dad in two years, brothers and many sons. And for me, when I tell you this, even two years later, I get the chills, because I don't know all these people, but it's been two years. So you learn their stories, and you know the suffering of these hostages, and we've seen with the, you know, the Hamas putting out these videos, which are propaganda and horrific, and we see the children in Gaza and people living in rubble. And you just say, as a person like enough, but what I always will say, and I appreciate everything you're saying, because I see it's nuanced, and I see both sides, but it did start, and that's why for me, talking about October 7, when my niece and her husband were murdered and Abigail was stolen as a hostage, as an orphan, having seen her parents murdered, and her brother and sister, a six and nine year old, Michael and Amalia, were locked in a closet in their home, where their mother's body lay feet away. And then even across the kibbutz was my niece and her husband and their three young children, and they spent almost 24 hours waiting for somebody to save them with terrorists in their house. All around there was smoke, there were grenades, there was fighting. And keep in mind the six and nine year old in the beginning, they had seen their father murdered, and Abigail was in his arms, so they assumed that she had been killed. So these little children were in a closet alone, and a social worker from the north got connected to them through this beautiful group called United hat salah, and she talked to them for 12 hours straight. This woman, Tamar, oh, my God. And she was their lifeline, and she saved them. She saved their soul, and she made sure they didn't go out and do anything or let open a door when

Hannah Gaber  12:00

somebody don't go looking for people, yes, oh, my God. So it was just

Liz Naftali  12:05

a horrific day, and also believing Abigail had been murdered. And it was only a few days later when they finally were able to clear this community, this kibbutz, with over 300 terrorists that came, and 63 people lost their lives that day from this community, far aza. But after the few days, Abigail's body wasn't there, and we hoped that she had been taken as a hostage. Can you imagine that was our horrible thing to have to hope for? Yeah, and then we found out through stories. And I write about it because I wanted to put in writing what happened on October 7, so I'm just going to show you I wrote this book. It's called Saving Abigail. And this is Abigail, and this is the same picture that when I realized she was a hostage, I took and I showed to leaders, Democrats and Republicans, and did on the press and showed that this was the face of a hostage. This was who they stole, and why I wrote this book, and what it talks about is so much more than what we're saying, but like what happened to her that day, how she actually survived, and that miracle, and how she managed to survive in Gaza for 51 days with no food, no hygiene. She was with another mother with her three children, but she knew her parents had been murdered by the same people that kidnapped her. And so what I wanted people, and I still want people, to know, is that while we still have to get the hostages back, and that is our number one priority, we need to keep telling the stories. And for me, it's the story of my family on October 7, and what happened to them,

Hannah Gaber  13:35

poor Abigail and poor all of you, but I cannot imagine the strength and courage of this tiny little person and what it took for her to be able to wait

Liz Naftali  13:45

and to be silent. Keep in mind, they were silenced these children, these four little kids, and Abigail was the youngest. They had no games, they had no toys, they had no screens. They were given very little food, like a piece of pita bread each a day, and kept in a dark room and silenced. So this child that's full of life and all these kids that want to scream, like all of our kids, then play and have fun, they couldn't make noise because there were guards making sure that they did not show any signs of life where they were being held in the dark.

Hannah Gaber  14:18

It's an unimaginable fear. It's an unimaginable, I guess, my heart, heart, I can't say my heart, but it's not enough. My soul is torn because of what these people have gone through. And how is Abigail now, I'm sure it's a complicated question.

Liz Naftali  14:37

Yeah. I mean, look, all the children in Israel are traumatized. People say they're resilient. They won't remember, but she knows she was in Gaber. Change her forever. It'll change her forever, and she knows that her parents aren't there. But what I can say, and this is the whole part of healing, is that Abigail was released, came back into the arms of my niece and my sister in law, her grandmother and has been loved and Michael and Amalia. Yeah, and and the three cousins that's spent 24 hours hidden, and these six children now are siblings, and my niece and her husband, who are raising them, are amazing human beings. And every day they just get up and they, you know, we think about, how do you get up every day? And I will say, like, some days when I'm exhausted and you know you talk about the fatigue, there's no time to be fatigued. But I look at this child, and I see the possibility. And like you said, all the people that are hostages are someone's Abigail. They're someone's family. And so I think that what for me keeps me going is also, when you think about it, like I know what it means to be 51 days waiting for somebody and hoping they're going to be free a child, but we are talking about people now two years waiting for their loved ones, whether it's to bury them or to embrace them and start rehabilitation. But think about the hostages, 20 men alive and abused and starved and just tossed around and used as propaganda. And they know, they know there's a deal in the works because there is a filtering of information, but they also don't know if they're going to get out this time, because there's been other times. So as we sit here at two years like I just think about all these people, and I'm like everything I can do, talking to you, talking to others, traveling the world, telling the story I speak with Jewish communities, Christian communities, Muslim community, and telling them and telling leaders, we got to stay in this together. We've got to get these people home, because that is the beginning of healing for the Israelis, for humanity, but also for the people living in Gaza.

Hannah Gaber  16:39

Amen. Amen to all of that, but, but keep

Liz Naftali  16:42

in mind, she didn't go home this, this community, this kibbutz, was just just destroyed in so many ways. She is back and she's safe, but she's not at home, and she doesn't have her mommy and daddy,

Hannah Gaber  16:52

and she'll never be at home really again.

16:55

Poor people, yeah.

Hannah Gaber  17:02

Thank goodness that she's in a family bosom. Yeah, it's amazing that she is and will presumably remain in Israel. And I don't know, I don't know how many people really understand what the experience of living on a kibbutz is like, but that's an experience you had, isn't it?

Liz Naftali  17:17

Well, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't live on a kibbutz, but my in laws lived on a kibbutz, and my sister in law lived on a kibbutz, and we would spend weekends there, and we would spend holidays in Shabbat and birthdays. And so for me, this kibbutz and my where my in laws live, these two communities which I want to tell people are like beautiful neighborhoods. They were places where children would run free. People lived and they wanted to live in peace. They were not looking for war. They were not looking for fighting. And they believed they were protected by the Israeli Defense Force and by the Israeli government. And I think that there is that part of it which was being let down, not being protected, that everybody who is from that both communities has to still deal with. But I'm going to say this, which is, like the Israeli people have been there for the Israeli people, and it is a beautiful thing. I don't know. I mean, it's like living in a neighborhood, it's living in a small town, it's living in a city where everybody's got each other's back. And you do feel like that so much in Israel. And so like, one of the things I want people to understand, and I don't know exactly who's listening, but I hope people will share this, because I think that sharing the truth of October 7 is an important way for us to explain why we're in this mess now, because you have to start with what happened that day. There was a ceasefire, and it was broken by Hamas.

Hannah Gaber  18:39

Hey all, just jumping in here for a quick sec, which I don't usually do, or have actually never done, but we are in the business of bringing the temperature down on this show. So just wanted to address the claim of there was a cease fire in place on October 7, which Hannah broke with the attacks. I've heard that frequently, but my fact checking does not show that there was any official, recognized cease fire in place at that time, there was somewhat of a slowdown or cessation of hostilities between these recognized powers, but there had been violence as early as January of 2023 including the infamous Jenin raid and violence in the West Bank, especially from settlers towards Palestinians. There had also been rocket fire from Gaza coming into Israel and attacks from the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. So it's complicated. Obviously, this in no way excuses Hannah's actions or is intended to mitigate anyone's pain. It's just context. So check the show notes if you'd like some more. There are some pretty good links in there.

Liz Naftali  19:36

And 1200 people were murdered, children, babies, infants, burned. We know about the rape. We know about the people that were just beheaded. I mean, it was horrific. And then 250 were taken, stolen into Gaza. Many were killed there or died there. And here we are at two years. And the one thing I want to keep reminding people is over 80% of the Israeli people have said. To end this fighting, we need to bring home our hostages, and I think that's an important piece. They are not looking to keep a war going. They're looking to get their people back, but they also need to live in security and not to be running to and from bomb shelters or believing that their borders are going to be penetrated again. So it's so complicated, but what I always try to do is remind people of that this is humans. These are people. And I don't mean to scare people, but what if it was in your neighborhood where 3000 terrorists came in with a goal to murder and kidnap your neighbors, your family? And that's why I want people to understand what happened on October 7. That was the goal of Hannah's. And so for me, I can't just say, Oh, it's someone else's problem. It isn't, and it's about my family, but I think it's about the human family, to be honest with you. And if we say that terror in one place is okay, then we're actually saying people can do terror anywhere, and we all have to accept it, and there's no accepting it. So I think that's kind of like the way I look at this moment of it's a humanitarian crisis, yeah, and we do need to bring home everybody, and we need to stop the fighting and take care of I always like to say this, and I mean this the children on both sides, so they're not sitting here in 30 or 40 years having the same conversation you and I are having that we learn from it, and that we are better people and we work together,

Hannah Gaber  21:20

and that we lean into our Jewish values. To me, that's one of the things that I I see. You know, I think that from this distance, one of the things that's so upsetting about all of it is watching the war going on and on and on, and just like, it's a betrayal of our Jewish values, we don't let people suffer like this. It's awful on both sides. That's the whole point is. The whole point is like stop the bleeding, literally and

Liz Naftali  21:42

figuratively. But I will say this, which is when you have political will from both sides, then you can make a deal. And we saw that. We saw that in November 2023 with President Biden and his team doing this work. And then we saw them put together another deal that just kept falling apart because there wasn't political will. And now we haven't seen any group of hostages since March of 2025 be released. And here we are at this moment, and I pray and hope and believe that you have a president, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, and this isn't the issue. The issue is you have a president who is declared he wants to bring home these hostages, and is doing everything he can. And President Trump is really focused on bringing home the hostages. And what I can just tell you is like, this is that moment, and we all have to put our energy there. And I always say this, the people that are against Israel and that have been pro Palestinian, if you are pro Palestinian right now, end this war, join in and make it clear that Hamas must release these hostages, and they they can't be part of the future because they weren't taking care of their people. As you said, they weren't before October 7, and they haven't been. They've used their people. And so for me, I am very pro people living in Gaza having a future that is also secure and safe, but it starts with the hostages coming home, ending the war, and Hamas cannot stay in power. That's just they can't. And so it is complicated, but on the other side, it is very clear what needs to happen in order to us to all to move forward. Yeah, and that's why I just say that. It's like, if you are really pro the freedom of these people, this is that moment to come together. And I keep talking about coming together. We don't have to agree on everything, but if our agreement is that we want to stop this war and help the children on both sides, we need to come together at this moment.

Hannah Gaber  23:38

And that's the basic rule of diplomacy, right? Start on the things we can agree on, just start with that one thing at a time. Yeah.

Hannah Gaber  23:54

It makes me think so much of how you started with the capital coffee connection podcast. And I will say I am very jealous, because that's the podcast I would have made if I had thought of it. And as soon as I was looking at it, I'm like, That's exactly what I what I think we need to do is remember the shared humanity that we have between us, and then we can get to your point, to that place of we can all see why this is absolutely necessary. We can agree on this, right? Let's move to this next step, this one step that Okay, now to the next Okay, now to the next step. And it's just so interesting to me, because I know in your activism, at least, you've talked to everyone about this. You've been to the DNC, you've been to the RNC. Tell me about, you know, how is it that you came to have these connections? I'm again, desperately jealous that you just were like, I have a great idea for a podcast. And all the senators in congress people were like, Sure, sounds great. Well, no, first, it's not that easy. Okay, okay, so I didn't just miss my chance. No, but

Liz Naftali  24:58

we have, we have leaders on the both sides. And they had heart and humanity. And if you can bring it up and talk about it, and it's not always easy for them, because they are so guarded in what they have to get done, but putting that concept aside the moment they get to talk about where they grew up, who they are, who their parents were, a teacher that inspired them, or their favorite ice cream or their favorite food, or their favorite household chore. We do things that just talking is a conversation. Because one thing I learned Hannah, it's a conversation. You can't just talk at people and but the beauty of it is, I didn't really know a lot of these people, but through these conversations, you get connected. And through this hostage work I was meeting with from very early on, within a week and a half of October 7, when we realized that Abigail was a hostage, Democrats and Republicans, and I took the picture of Abigail, and I showed everybody Democrats and Republicans and told them what happened. And I also explained to them that her parents are gone. I'm her auntie. Please help me be aunties and uncles. I'm telling these are the top leaders in our world, and telling this to the White House. And Susan Collins was one of the first senators I met, and I showed her this picture, and I said, this is Abigail. Will you help us? And she said, I will do everything I can. And three days after I met her in Washington, DC, she was in Israel, and my daughter, who was there, said, my cousin Abigail and Susan Collins picked up this picture and said, I'm going to do everything I can to bring home your your cousin. And a few hours later, in this press conference International, and this is a week, two weeks after October 7, she shows the world the face of Abigail as a hostage, telling people about the brutality of what Hamas did. And the reason I say this is because the podcast started off with, I want to talk about heart humanity, and what I would tell Susan Collins and so many leaders, they would start bawling, and what I would tell some of the most powerful people in our government at the time, they would start to cry, because what they understood was that this was this child, and she was representative of so many children and so Many people and so on my podcast was about heart and humanity, this story was also about heart and humanity. And so it kind of proved it. And I'll just say another story, the RNC. I didn't know anybody, but I met this very incredible woman named Penny Nance, and she's from this group called concern Women for America. And we differ on many, many things. She's an evangelical woman and our issues are so different for a lot, but we agree on hostages must be released. Israel must be secure. Anti semitism they support through their students on campuses, the Jewish kids who are being treated really badly. But the thing about her is that we're both moms. She just became a grandma. We're women. We can talk about our hair, we can talk about trips and so many things that just if you can talk about those things, you find that commonality. And I called her a few weeks before the Republican Convention, and I said, Do you think you could get a hostage family? And she went to the Trump team, and, like she said, A day later, she came back and she said they would like this, and here we go. And so that was the opportunity for the Republicans to hear about hostages from directly from the nutra family, which is the parents of Omer, who was killed, but at that time, they believed he was still alive. And so I think that what it is is, and you understand this, you just got to be, got to have a chutzpah, and you got to push and, and you don't not that No, is isn't sometimes the answer, but sometimes you have to keep pushing and keep trying and, and it's truly about opening up. If I didn't open up and become friends with Penny Nance, this wouldn't happen. And to this day, we still check in with each other. She's still helping to get the hostages through her organization, and personally, and she's my friend, and I know I can count on her, and I think she knows she can count on me.

Hannah Gaber  28:46

Yeah, well, I think the work that you're doing with your podcast, the work that you're doing with your book, the work that you're doing by talking to people, little old people like me, you know, just the work that you're doing to bring the temperature down, I think is really, really important right now. And I guess, you know, again, I don't it feels calloused to even ask this, but I think it's, it's really critical to do that, to do the big work of healing, the big, big work of healing like we're going to need it in this country. We need it now. We've needed it for a while. I fear for us, you know, I really do. And I think, you know, it is exactly this type of exchange where, let's just talk, let's we can come back and argue about abortion later. But for right now, can we have a conversation about how awesome it is to both be grandmas, or both be moms or both be you know, we can? We can

Liz Naftali  29:40

women try to make a difference in our case? You know? Yeah, and you're trying to make a difference, and you're having conversations, and you're explaining things. And what I also learned in this is people, they don't know. So many people who are going to listen to this aren't going to know that 80% of plus Israelis want to end this war and bring home hostages. They don't know. Because when you. Hear the vitriol from some of the leaders in Israel. You don't know that. And what you also has been lost is that the Israeli government doesn't represent the Israeli people in the same way of like the heart and humanity of the everyday people that are rallying and bringing home the hostages and helping each other and showing up for each other. And I say the same thing, the people living in Gaza, they are not synonymous with Hamas. Yes, Hannah rules them, but they are. These children are innocent victims of what Hamas has done. And so sometimes you have to argue with people because they'll come and say, Oh, every child's a Hamas. And you're like telling people like that, no, they're children. And so I think that part of it is just having sometimes harder conversations, listening, but also telling stories. So that's why, going back to why I wrote this book, I want people to know the truth. This is a true story. It's like a unfortunately, it's a little bit like an Anne Frank version of World War Two and the Showa, what she went through. And this book tells what Abigail went through. And we have it, you know, it's we just put it out with a new prolog. Because what I wanted, this been a busy year, new government, Abigail's grown up, and we still have hostages. So I thought that a way to bring it to the second year of this crisis was to the story still the same, but to kind of catch up and say what happened in this last year. And so I put a plug for the book, because what I understand is that if people don't know all the story, or they have people in their communities that don't, this is a great way for people to know. It's an easy, digestible and so horrific that it happened to a three year old and to her family,

Hannah Gaber  31:39

yeah, yeah. And I to your point, I think it's also it's again, it's just really important. As recently as this last weekend, 1000s of Israelis were in the streets demanding a deal, end it, stop it. Bring them home, stop this war. I think it's important that people realize you can find allies everywhere. You really can. And when we look for each other, we can actually accomplish

Liz Naftali  32:03

things, and when we're kind of glad, when we're kind and when we're coming from a place

Hannah Gaber  32:07

of business, yes, absolutely. And I'm curious, you know, I'm glad you brought up the PROLOG, because I want to know, yes, much has changed, and we can all read your book and catch up on the nuts and bolts. What? What has changed for you, really, since you wrote the book? What kinds of changes have you felt and experienced?

Liz Naftali  32:27

Well, I haven't slept well. I've traveled the world telling the story, because I believe that this is a role I should play. But I have to be honest, like I'm heartbroken because I see these people that don't come home, or people that come home, you know, that were killed. And I just think about like, how blessed I am in so many ways. And yet, I go to Israel every couple months to be with the family, to be with Abigail and the five kids and my niece and nephew and all the family, just to give support, just to be there. I love them, but I see their struggle. And so when you ask, like, what it's done you you don't just get up every morning and say, Oh, I'm just gonna like, life is easy because, you know it's not. But at the same time, what I've also learned is those moments, the beautiful moments, where you're just getting a hug, or one of the kids, like Abigail's older brother in bar, calls me on the phone and says, What are you doing? And he talks to me, we FaceTime. Those moments are so important, and not that I ever took anything for granted. But I just look at life now and I just think like when I see people, I smile and I give them warmth, because I know that other people are struggling, and sometimes be able to do that, it gives them and it gives me a joy to do that. And you know what I've learned is like, you find amazing moments in crazy places, and I write about it in the PROLOG. I was in New York about six, eight months ago, going to an event, talking to a rabbi on the phone, of all places in Tennessee, and I was telling her about my advocacy and

Hannah Gaber  34:01

to a rabbi in Tennessee. You couldn't rabbis in New York, okay.

Liz Naftali  34:05

But anyways, I just say this because as I'm getting out and paying the driver, he says, God bless you. And I, and I looked at him, you know, I from, and I said, Excuse me, because I didn't, wasn't quite sure what I heard. And he's like, God bless you. And I said, thank you. And he goes, and you keep doing your work. God bless you. And it was that moment that I just, like, I still get a chill, but like, such kindness. And I could tell you story after story about people that are good, and this is what I say. And I've said this forever, and I will say this forever. There's more good people than bad, the loud ones that are not helpful and not positive. It really does get us crazy, but there are more good people, and that is who we should be finding to be with and to support ourselves and to support them.

Hannah Gaber  34:55

I have felt that same way. There are more good people. People, and we turn to each other, and if we turn to each other, we can create the world that we all really do want to see.

Liz Naftali  35:07

I've been to events where, like, it's a Christian, Jewish event, let's say, and then there's a couple of young people who are from the Muslim community in their country or their city, and they come up and they say, We are sorry. What happened to you? We are here with you. And I'm like, we're here with you. We are all in this together. And it's again, it's those moments of understanding that heart and humanity is what connects us, and that is what people people are really thriving. They thrive from it, but they need it so badly, and they want it. So what I can tell you about my life is that I feel very fortunate to be speaking with you, but I also know that we have a lot of work to do, and I look at that as something that I ask whenever I speak, I give hope okay. And hope is about courage. It's about the courage to go and do something I was faced with, something horrific. But everybody can rise up a little bit more every day, and if we do it as humans, we can make this world a better place. And I'm not saying this in a kumbaya, but I really, truly believe that we all have the potential to make our worlds and the world of others better, and it starts with being kind, but also making sure that we see each other and that we listen to each other, yeah, space for each other's pain, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hannah Gaber  36:26

Well, thank you. I know you have a plane to catch, yeah, but I just, I really want to thank you for sharing your story and sharing your family with us. And thank you. I know we earlier said, you know, how's Abigail doing, but last time you saw Abigail? Was she playing? Was she happy? Was she with her new her new cousin siblings?

Liz Naftali  36:47

Yeah. I mean, like the last time I was there, she and all the kids were starting school. It was about a month ago, and she was starting kita Alev, which is first grade, and it was a big deal, and she's still little, but her backpack is even bigger than she is, but it was just seeing her with such a joy that she was in kita Aleph, because it's a very exciting time for little kids in Israel, and exciting for all, all the kids, six children, to go back to school and to have their friends and to have teachers and to be in community. And so when you say, like, what was the last my vision was they were all off to school, soccer, friends, birthdays, life, and one of the my niece had a bat mitzvah 12 years old, and that's what we want for all of our kids. So I being kids Exactly. So every kid deserves that. So sometimes it's just it's those small moments, but they are so powerful and they're worth

Hannah Gaber  37:41

fighting for,

Liz Naftali  37:42

yeah, and thank you and thank you for what you do, because podcasts are a lot of work, and I know it as you know what, but what I also know is that if your podcast is about hate and vitriol and attacking, you can get a lot of points, and people are watching. But when you're building something that is meaningful and that is something that you want to see, that will grow with your children and through your life. It takes time, but what I also know is that people need to turn off the news and stop making themselves crazy and listen to your podcast. Listen to mine, but listen to the podcasts that make them 30 minutes, 40 minutes, that just give them a feeling of joy, and that we're in this together, and that, I think is mitzvah that you are doing. So thank you.

Hannah Gaber  38:26

Oh, I really appreciate that. Thank you for that. That's That's my greatest hope is to just provide a space just as you do, where we can just be humans together.

Liz Naftali  38:35

Yeah. So I hope and pray that as people listen to this, that we will see hostages be home, and that we will start to see healing begin in Israel and throughout the world, and that we will all try to work together as best we can, even in our small little communities, because the ripple effect is big, and little ripples turn into big waves. So thank you so much. Can you hear rats on?

Hannah Gaber  39:01

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